I'm not the only one who has noticed this trend. Craig Wiseman also picked up on it, and wrote a very good and slightly tongue-in-cheek analysis of why we should call the post-8 version of Domino, Websphere Lite.
... We have problems. Seems like IBM would like to have a single message for developers, sales folks, and customers. Domino is an excellent product that has a history of evolving, and there are lots of open source/easily available tools. IBM's long term app server seems way too big and complicated to fit small customers.
So how do we solve it? We get two versions of Websphere, Websphere Lite and Websphere Gargantua.
It gets better from there. Unlike me Craig doesn't see doom and gloom in Domino's future. It'll be interesting to see which vision, if either, is closest to reality. I'll go pop some popcorn and watch the spectacle, you go read Craig's blog. :-)
Responded over there.
ReplyDeleteThe moon landings were real, guys.
@1 - Hee Hee! Yes, I saw where they filmed them....
ReplyDelete.... in the California desert....
8-)
@Charles - I guess the pot needed stirring?
@Nathan - So is the lack of focus on core Domino issues. We've all lamented it for the past 10+ years, and we're now being promised improvements at some future date. It's the same as it ever was.
ReplyDelete@Craig - I had a bit of skin left from the last flaying.
"lack of focus on core Domino issues"
ReplyDeleteCharles, the fact that they didn't address X, Y and Z concern of YOURS doesn't mean there was no focus on core Domino issues.
Do I really have to list the number of improvements on the platform over the last DECADE?
You really should write a book: "How To Piss Off Your Biggest Fans", by Nathan T. Freeman. Quoting an online buddy:
ReplyDeleteWombat: Nathan should also note that just because they aren't HIS issues doesn't mean they aren't the issues of lots of other people
Wombat: and he still needs to learn to use some tact
Wombat: its one thing to foster discussion and another to just be a know it all
Wombat: some how he thinks his view is the only correct one and everyone else is a moron
Wombat: i realize he is an intelligent member of the community but he approaches it all the wrong way
cubert: I couldn't agree more. Mind if I use that, without giving your name? :)
Wombat: you can give my name even i dont care =)
Wombat: I just hope he takes it to heart
We want to like you. You're making it difficult.
Thanks for the feedback, Charles. Give Wombat my best. Good luck to you.
ReplyDeleteI don't know about Domino being shunned. I've been thinking a good bit about this and the LCTY event yesterday was pretty good. And really, with the exception of Websphere Portal, Activities, and RTC gateway, all the focus was Lotus Domino-based applications. And there are some great things coming in Domino Next.
ReplyDeleteI'm understanding the requirements for DB2 on Activities more after really realizing that there is SO MUCH data potentially there and an RDB is really necessary. It just has to sink in. Could it be more tightly integrated with Domino maybe with NSFDB2? Possibly. And it does get back to the whole dogfooding. But I think it's a real stretch to say that Domino is being shunned. A huge stretch!
Chris, during Speedgeeking at Lotusphere two professors from the University of Paderborn showed an implementation of Activities that was purely NSF based. They committed to giving the template away when Notes 8 ships. My understanding of German is pretty shaky, but in reading the information it sounds like it runs in Notes/Domino 6+.
ReplyDeleteMy original point last December was that there were no new products coming from Lotus that were being delivered on Domino. Sure there are some incremental upgrades to features, and some of that is pretty nifty new stuff. But I haven't seen any net new products coming that are purely Notes and Domino solutions with the exception of Quickr Personal.
I'd love to be proven wrong. :-)
I understand that Quickr can be either pure Domino or can be Websphere-based. This is what Nathan said yesterday.
ReplyDeleteCharles ... They (Dr. Ludwig Nastansky and Ingo Erdmann) built a composite application ... so guess what, that only works on Notes 8. And it is not a replacement for Activities in Connections. It is a different style and I expect them to integrate Lotus Connections Activities into the application.
ReplyDeleteAll this info is on the net Charles .. you could search and be accurate.
John, I did research it. As I said, my understanding of German is shaky at best. There was a section where they said something about Domino 6, and I presumed they wouldn't mention it if it weren't supported. At Speedgeeking they said it was a composite app that delivered NSF-based Activities. In 5 minutes I didn't have much opportunity to ask questions. So far the template isn't available that I can find. Do you have a source for it that you can share?
ReplyDeleteQuickr Enterprise can run in a 100% Domino environment. So can everything Sametime EXCEPT the public gateway. You might have noticed that there's a new version of Sametime out now with a number of new features. This information is available publically.
ReplyDeleteConnections is not Domino-based. It requires big platforms to support it. But out of the 5 platform features of Connections, only two of them are things you don't already get with Domino: Activities and Dogear. Blogs, Profile and Communities are already baseline product elements of Domino.
So there's two "products" coming from Lotus in the next 18 months that AREN'T built or available on Domino. In the meantime, there's a new version of Notes, of Domino itself, of Sametime, and the brand new Quickr. And there's commitments from Lotus about what's coming in the NEXT version of Notes/Domino, including Designer-in-Eclipse and a big step up in Domino's HTTP delivery capabilities.
But the platform's being ignored.
Right.
Nathan, do you have a public IBM or Lotus source for the information about deploying Quickr Enterprise purely on Domino? I can't find it on the Quickr site. While I as clicking through I did see some information on Rob Novak's blog about NSF and J2EE options for Quickr Enterprise. I suppose you could argue that's public even if it's not coming from Lotus, so I stand corrected. Thanks for proving me wrong. :-)
ReplyDeleteThe only part of Sametime I ever mentioned having an issue with was the RTC gateway. Here you also say doesn't run on Domino and have criticized that design decision in the past. So we're in agreement on that. I'm not sure what Sametime 7.5.1 has to do with this conversation, unless you're upholding it as an example of something that has been released for Domino.
Going back to my original post from December 2006, there is quite a long list of new things that require some amount of WAS or DB2. I won't rehash that here, the link is in my original post.
It's obvious we have a difference of opinion on the level of inclusiveness we would like to see for Domino. It's also rather painfully obvious that we have different styles of getting our points across. The hostility, snide remarks and sarcasm have worn thin.